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Becoming Bold: A Conversation Between Fred Joyal and Amol Nirgudkar


Fred Joyal, author of Superbold: From Under-Confident to Charismatic in 90 Days, and Amol Nirgudkar, CEO of Patient Prism, discuss the origins and promise of this new book, as well as its potential for impact on the practice of dentistry.





In 90 days, you can become more confident and bolder.

Amol Nirgudkar: I know you were working on this project for a long time. Why did you write this book?

Fred Joyal: Because I grew up as a very shy person, myself. And over many, many years, I figured out my way out of it. Because I thought bold people were just born that way.

But I had bold moments. And I figured out a way to build my confidence and boldness to higher and higher levels, to the point where I can speak on a stage to 5,000 people comfortably.

And I'll walk up and meet anyone. I've met billionaires, I've met famous actors. But also, I want people to not have regrets in life. To go out in the world and not miss out on opportunities, on fun, on adventure, on relationships, take chances. Start businesses, ask for a raise, ask for a promotion, introduce yourself to that person who could be the person of your dreams.

Amol Nirgudkar: And so, this book is not a business book but it will help people in business and every aspect of life. One of the words you use in your book is hesitation.

Fred Joyal: Yes. Hesitation is the opportunity killer.

Amol Nirgudkar: You also use the words confidence and boldness, and you make a distinction between them.

Fred Joyal: Confidence is how you feel. Boldness is confidence in action. The book is full of exercises that you do to build your confidence steadily, so that over 90 days you are significantly more confident and bolder than you ever were.


Why are people hesitant? Why do they “just live” with this obstacle to personal fulfillment?

Amol Nirgudkar: One of the things I've noticed in my career is people rarely ask for a promotion. They never feel entitled to ask for what they want. And I think part of it is the way they were raised. What do you think?

Fred Joyal: They experienced embarrassment or rejection at an early enough age, or they were pushed into uncomfortable situations and they retreated. They didn't like that feeling, so they decided to play it safe. Is that really what you want on your tombstone? "I played it as safe as possible my whole life."

There will be times when you will only get one shot. I use the example of giving a eulogy for someone close to you. If you say, "I don't like to speak in public. I'm afraid," you will regret it the rest of your life. And so, it's things like that. I want people to be bold enough to seize every situation.

Amol Nirgudkar: Wayne Gretzky said, "You’ll never make 100% of the shots you don’t take.” Does being bold mean to also accept failure and learn from it?

Fred Joyal: Sure, bold people have learned that failures are only failures if you're not learning something. And they figure out that 99% of the time, nothing bad happens unless you label it that way. In contrast, shy, under-confident people see it as, "Oh, that was bad. I'm embarrassed. I'm hurt. I should be ashamed." Bold people go, "I'm just laughing at that."


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How can people overcome hesitancy?

Amol Nirgudkar: A lot of people don't have the courage to be bold because of their mindset. How can you break that mindset? What’s the one hack?

Fred Joyal: There are two hacks. First, we were told as children, "Don't talk to strangers." As a grownup, I talk to strangers because it's harmless. You could say, "Hi, I'm Amol. I would love to meet you." And if they said, "I wouldn't like to meet you at all," you can just say, "Okay," and walk away.

The second is to say to yourself, "I'm going to do something every day that pushes me a little bit into my discomfort zone -- not deep into it, just a little bit more and a little bit more every day.”


Why is boldness highly relevant to the practice of dentistry?

Amol Nirgudkar: In dentistry, we know what's right for the patient. We know that the treatment that we are offering is the right thing. We know they need that deep cleaning. We know they need that crown. We feel pushing the conversation could be met with resistance or disrupt the rapport we’ve established. We aren’t bold enough to have the conversation that is going to improve their life.

Fred Joyal: It also takes boldness to ask for referrals from a patient and ask them to recommend you. It takes boldness to terminate someone who shouldn’t be in the office. It takes boldness to present a large treatment case.

You think, "Wow, $40,000. This is expensive. I don't want to say it out loud." The dentists who have learned to say it out loud, hear “yes” a certain amount of the time. But it takes boldness. You’ve got to build your boldness muscle so that you can do larger and larger cases. Because you're not going to present a $90,000 case if you've never presented anything over $80,000.

And there are people who present $90,000 cases, and the patients go, "When do we start?" This is because they came at it with the confidence to say, "I am highly skilled at this, and this is the best thing for you."


There are 90 exercises in the book… 90 steps towards boldness

Amol Nirgudkar: So, how do you respond to someone who says, "Fred, you've written three books. You started great companies. You're a well-known guy. It’s easy for you to be bold.”

Fred Joyal: One of the principles of the book is to control the dosage of the experience so it's not too intense. Another is to say to yourself, “I belong everywhere. Wherever I am, I belong here.” When you tell yourself over and over something that you want to believe, it eventually becomes part of what you believe. A lot of times we say to ourselves, "I don't know if I belong here.” I’m not a billionaire, but I’ll walk up to a billionaire and have a normal conversation with them because they're human.

Amol Nirgudkar: I read the book and got a lot out of it. I've learned to be bold over the years. And obviously, when you run a business and you're out there trying to sell, there's no choice but to be bold.

Fred Joyal: You’ve got to step up or it will go under.

Amol Nirgudkar: To achieve your fullest potential, you want to have that boldness within you that allows you to be happy. Whether it's relationships, promotions, or influencing a patient, you’ve got to be bold. And you can cultivate that.

One of the things that you talk about is there's no such thing as being born with boldness. It’s cultivated. And the book provides a 90-day plan. If you follow the exercises, you are going to become a bolder person without becoming arrogant.

Fred Joyal: Boldness does not mean walking all over people. I want readers to have a positive impact wherever they go. I want you to achieve your dreams. We need serious help with the world at this point. We need people who are willing to step up and do bold things and solve big problems. I want to help as many people as possible feel like they can do that.

Amol Nirgudkar: What's the best way to order the book, just go to Amazon?

Fred Joyal: It’s easy to find on Amazon in Kindle, Audible, and hardcover versions. And you can also go to my website. If you bought the Kindle version and you want a printout of the exercises, you can go to FredJoyal.com to get a printout.

Amol Nirgudkar: Fred, what a pleasure it is to talk to you. And I'm excited about how this book is going to help so many people. Not just in our industry, but all over the world to take the next steps to boldly create the life that they deserve.


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